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5 things you need to know about green cars
If you're holding back from buying an electric or plug-in hybrid, read this story. Some of what you think you know may turn out to be wrong.
Tue, Sep 27 2011 at 10:58 AM
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PRICE PREMIUM: The Fisker Karma will cost $96,850 ... but there's a $7,500 federal income tax credit! (Photo: Jim Motavalli)
Don’t worry about battery life: The biggest question I get about electric vehicles is about that great big battery pack — will I be out thousands of dollars if the most expensive component in the car gives out on me? People ask this both because they don’t want to be liable for buying a new pack and because they’re worried about the pack ending up polluting a landfill. Neither is likely to happen. The pack in the Nissan Leaf, for instance, is warranted for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, and the Chevrolet Volt’s pack (as of the 2012 model year) is good for 10 years or 150,000 miles. Long warranties are essential for getting some of these cars low-emission status in California, whose rules are followed by 13 other states. The longevity record is very good on battery packs, anyway — very few hybrids have needed to replace them. It’s also important to note that nearly all automakers have signed on to battery recycling programs, and packs are expected to also have second lives as backup for renewable energy (for instance, storing nighttime energy from wind turbines to be used during the day).
Plug-in hybrids are not range challenged: When the Toyota Prius first came out, the public was generally misinformed about how the cars worked — the belief that hybrids needed to be plugged in was fairly widespread. We’ve finally got past that one, but now we have a whole new challenge with plug-in hybrids, which are plugged in to achieve 15 miles of all-electric range (the Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid), 25 to 40 miles (the Chevrolet Volt) or 50 miles (the forthcoming Fisker Karma). Many people lump them in with battery EVs as short-range vehicles. But when the electric miles are history, the car still has a long way to travel. The gas engine either drives the wheels like a standard hybrids (the plug-in Prius) or acts as a generator (the Volt and Karma) to deliver another 300 miles of travel. And the transition to gas power is seamless — your hair won’t even get mussed up. So, plenty of range in plug-in hybrids.
Don’t wait for public charging: Are you worried about owning an electric car because there won’t be anywhere to plug the car in? Calm down. Some 80 percent of EV charging will be done at home, where you’re likely to have a government-subsidized charger in the garage (or outside if you don’t have a garage), and that will always be the best (and cheapest) place to tank up on electricity. The public charger at the local Walgreen’s or in front of the bank (that's an AeroVironment example at right) may well cost more than home charging — because many of the networks are being put in by profit-making companies. Think of public charging as your backup plan when range anxiety sets in. And even if you don’t see a public infrastructure now, you probably will soon — the cars are rolling out slowly, and the charging will go in as they hit the showrooms.
Electric cars aren’t as expensive as they seem: Yes, the prices are in the $30K-range (Leaf, Mitsubishi i), $40s (the Volt) and higher ($96,850 for a Fisker Karma, $109,000 for a Tesla Roadster). But luxury cars are always expensive, and you can take whatever price quoted and deduct the $7,500 federal tax credit, as well as a 30 percent (up to $1,000) tax credit for installing a garage charger. And then there’s the very low operating costs. As one rule of thumb, a gas car that gets 20 mpg average would cost 20 cents a mile to operate, and a comparable electric just 3 cents. So you do start saving money immediately, though it may take a while before you pay back that initial investment. I think that automakers are likely to offer lower-priced electric vehicles with, say, 50-mile range instead of 100. That means a half-sized battery pack and a much lower bottom line. Those cars aren’t here yet.
It pays to be an early adopter: Consider this. If you’re a Californian and you jumped on the Nissan Leaf waiting list when they first announced it, you probably not only have your car now but also
1) A free charger, courtesy of ECOtality;
2) A huge cut in the bottom line, combining that federal tax credit with the $5,000 state rebate from a fund that's been totally exhausted since last July;
3) The catbird seat in the state high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes, because standard hybrid cars like the Prius are now banned from them. All told, your $32,000 Leaf probably ended up costing $20,000. Plus you got bragging rights, a crowd that gathered whenever you parked, and coverage in the hometown paper. The Tesla Roadster is still rare enough that owners get mobbed, but that won’t last forever. If you don’t like getting surrounded and being asked a million questions, perhaps this is not an asset.
Here's how the tragic loss of access to HOV lanes looked to Californian hybrid owners last summer. Many panicked Angelenos, including my own cousin, are looking at buying a battery car to get back to the HOV garden:
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New York Times contributor blogs about green transportation.
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What about potentially harmful electromagnetic radiation?
I heard somewhere that if you produced a car with the 3 cylinder Prius engine (that does not have to pass emissions for some reason) into a similar sized car, without the weight of all the batteries and electric gizmos in the Prius, the car would get over 60 mpg ! Forget electrics and hybrids, just start making inexpensive, high mpg, commuter cars.
Electric Hybrids are not the only kind of hybrids. There are many ways to store wasted or unused energy from the vehicle system. I would like to see more effort put into compressed air hybrids, hydraulic hybrids, and flywheels.These systems do not require expensive batteries, are potentially just as good as an electric hybrid, and are easily cheaper.
Government subsidies for the car. Subsidies for the garage charging station. If a technology requires this many subsidies, it means it is not economically viable. The market may be slow (or not fast enough for you) but it gets there when it is time. It is by definition not time. When demand can support electrics with out what will likely be eternal handouts it will be time.
A couple of notes about range:
1. Most people take local trips in their cars, well under 50 miles. They do not need 300 miles of range except to feel good.
2. Chevy Volt users have hundreds of miles of possible range. It has been noted though that most of them are keeping within the 40 mile battery pack range anyway!
EVsRock!
http://www.evsroll.com
Wow. Have you bothered to research anything you've spoken about? You are totally WRONG! We don't need to build ANY new "electric generating facilities". We have enough electric capacity right now. There's a surplus of electricity available at night, since businesses are mostly closed, and most people sleep. The majority of EV charging is done at night. What a convenient situation! I am a "working class" person who bought a hybrid, and I love getting 40+ MPG!
I get 37 summer avg, 35 winter, and 44 summer on trips, using my non-hybrid 2004 Mitsibushi Lancer. I can also blow pretty much everyone (except another Mitsubishi) off the line, no prob.
Are you aware that we are paying subsidies to OIL companies?? There was a lot of discussion about this when congress was arguing the debt celiing. Of course the republicans made sure that these subsidies dodnt end. Does this mean that oil isnt feasable?
Just thought I'd mention plug-in hybrids and EV's are also subsidized by not paying Federal Highway and State gasoline taxes. .37 a gallon in Michigan. Can't see that subsidy lasting forever. Other than that as mentioned above I really like plug-in hybrids since electricity is almost 100% domestic (ok not uranium). While 50% of our oil is imported.
I don't understand. The Chevy Metro manual shift, with careful driving without need of obsessive hypermiling gives me at least 50 mpg. And it was a cheap car. It performs even better than a Prius and it is not hybrid.
New, small size high mpg cars are so expensive. Why aren't there sub-$10K small size 50 mpg highway capable cars being sold anymore in the US?
Why would we need a big huge car when a Chevy Metro suffices. Public conspiracy: WHO KILLED THE CHEVY METRO?
Try tuning the radio in this rock and roll cheap buckboard of a car while moving down a moderately bumpy road! I had a Metro, you'll never get me in that beer can again!
Battery Cars basically hands the industry over to China. Battery as known will not work. MUST Rebuild electric transmission along roads, hybrids use the electricity when available along road. Transmission efficiency improvements cover about half the transportation needs.
NOTE: read note below. Big gain is NOT in electricity production. The electric transmission system is very old, costly, and very inefficient. Put it along roadways as noted, 'bleed' juice for vehicles, which mostly only use energy when going up hills. Solutions are simple but existing companies (cars and oil) control all.
I drove my last car to 300K miles. A car that can only survive 100K miles isn't worth squat to me.
Was your last car waranteed to go 300k miles? Any part of it? It doesnt matter anyway. We dont have to covert everything to electrics. If we can use electricity for 75% of of our driving, it benefilts everyone. The price of oil will drop dramatically when the demand drops the same way. Both types of vehicles will be needed, and both will cost less to operate than now when we have widespread electrics/hybrids.
To true, this mirrors my post. Get a warranty of 250K on batteries alone and we'll talk, that's my line.
This of course won't currently happen , because the batteries just aren't good enough.
Our electric transmission system is ancient and inefficient. If rebuilt along roadways, hybrid vehicles could get power from 'roadway' even very large trucks. Gas kicks in if/when road juice not available. Maybe a zero-sum game because current waste in electric transmission so great.
Locally-generated electricity from a small Oil-from-Algae power plant has the potential to eliminate most line-loss, as well as most power lines.
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