5 things you need to know about green cars

If you're holding back from buying an electric or plug-in hybrid, read this story. Some of what you think you know may turn out to be wrong.

Tue, Sep 27 2011 at 10:58 AM EST

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PRICE PREMIUM: The Fisker Karma will cost $96,850 ... but there's a $7,500 federal income tax credit! (Photo: Jim Motavalli)

Don’t worry about battery life: The biggest question I get about electric vehicles is about that great big battery pack — will I be out thousands of dollars if the most expensive component in the car gives out on me? People ask this both because they don’t want to be liable for buying a new pack and because they’re worried about the pack ending up polluting a landfill. Neither is likely to happen. The pack in the Nissan Leaf, for instance, is warranted for eight years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, and the Chevrolet Volt’s pack (as of the 2012 model year) is good for 10 years or 150,000 miles. Long warranties are essential for getting some of these cars low-emission status in California, whose rules are followed by 13 other states. The longevity record is very good on battery packs, anyway — very few hybrids have needed to replace them. It’s also important to note that nearly all automakers have signed on to battery recycling programs, and packs are expected to also have second lives as backup for renewable energy (for instance, storing nighttime energy from wind turbines to be used during the day).

Plug-in hybrids are not range challenged: When the Toyota Prius first came out, the public was generally misinformed about how the cars worked — the belief that hybrids needed to be plugged in was fairly widespread. We’ve finally got past that one, but now we have a whole new challenge with plug-in hybrids, which are plugged in to achieve 15 miles of all-electric range (the Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid), 25 to 40 miles (the Chevrolet Volt) or 50 miles (the forthcoming Fisker Karma). Many people lump them in with battery EVs as short-range vehicles. But when the electric miles are history, the car still has a long way to travel. The gas engine either drives the wheels like a standard hybrids (the plug-in Prius) or acts as a generator (the Volt and Karma) to deliver another 300 miles of travel. And the transition to gas power is seamless — your hair won’t even get mussed up. So, plenty of range in plug-in hybrids.

Don’t wait for public charging: Are you worried about owning an electric car because there won’t be anywhere to plug the car in? Calm down. Some 80 percent of EV charging will be done at home, where you’re likely to have a government-subsidized charger in the garage (or outside if you don’t have a garage), and that will always be the best (and cheapest) place to tank up on electricity. The public charger at the local Walgreen’s or in front of the bank (that's an AeroVironment example at right) may well cost more than home charging — because many of the networks are being put in by profit-making companies. Think of public charging as your backup plan when range anxiety sets in. And even if you don’t see a public infrastructure now, you probably will soon — the cars are rolling out slowly, and the charging will go in as they hit the showrooms.

Electric cars aren’t as expensive as they seem: Yes, the prices are in the $30K-range (Leaf, Mitsubishi i), $40s (the Volt) and higher ($96,850 for a Fisker Karma, $109,000 for a Tesla Roadster). But luxury cars are always expensive, and you can take whatever price quoted and deduct the $7,500 federal tax credit, as well as a 30 percent (up to $1,000) tax credit for installing a garage charger. And then there’s the very low operating costs. As one rule of thumb, a gas car that gets 20 mpg average would cost 20 cents a mile to operate, and a comparable electric just 3 cents. So you do start saving money immediately, though it may take a while before you pay back that initial investment. I think that automakers are likely to offer lower-priced electric vehicles with, say, 50-mile range instead of 100. That means a half-sized battery pack and a much lower bottom line. Those cars aren’t here yet.

It pays to be an early adopter: Consider this. If you’re a Californian and you jumped on the Nissan Leaf waiting list when they first announced it, you probably not only have your car now but also

1) A free charger, courtesy of ECOtality;

2) A huge cut in the bottom line, combining that federal tax credit with the $5,000 state rebate from a fund that's been totally exhausted since last July;

3) The catbird seat in the state high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes, because standard hybrid cars like the Prius are now banned from them. All told, your $32,000 Leaf probably ended up costing $20,000. Plus you got bragging rights, a crowd that gathered whenever you parked, and coverage in the hometown paper. The Tesla Roadster is still rare enough that owners get mobbed, but that won’t last forever. If you don’t like getting surrounded and being asked a million questions, perhaps this is not an asset.

Here's how the tragic loss of access to HOV lanes looked to Californian hybrid owners last summer. Many panicked Angelenos, including my own cousin, are looking at buying a battery car to get back to the HOV garden:

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kat 10/05/2011 15:03 PM

What about potentially harmful electromagnetic radiation?

Evan 10/03/2011 09:54 AM

I heard somewhere that if you produced a car with the 3 cylinder Prius engine (that does not have to pass emissions for some reason) into a similar sized car, without the weight of all the batteries and electric gizmos in the Prius, the car would get over 60 mpg ! Forget electrics and hybrids, just start making inexpensive, high mpg, commuter cars.

graphikzking 10/03/2011 10:28 AM

Unfortuntely that information is incorrect. The prius battery pack only weighs about 120 lbs. The electric motor, wiring etc only weigh another 60-70lbs. You're looking at a total weight penalty of less than 200lbs. (1 average sized adult male basically). Also, the prius does NOT have a 3cylinder engine. - The smart car has a 3 cylinder engine and is extremely light weight yet gets 33city and 41hwy. The Prius gets 50 city and 50 highway. If you take out all the Prius gizmos, make the car.... More

pat.hanna 10/03/2011 09:27 AM

I'm really tired of all the electric hype. There IS an option that really works, and with the proper stimulus and investment would replace our current lifestyle seamlessly -- Hydrogen Fuel Cells! Not quite as energy efficient and perhaps a little less cost-effective energy-wise, BUT, with a proper infrastructure they would give us the 'range' needed to travel around and be transportationally independent that plugging in your electric vehicle for several hours every 2-300 miles (at best) will.... More

coasterpro 10/03/2011 04:13 AM

Electric Hybrids are not the only kind of hybrids. There are many ways to store wasted or unused energy from the vehicle system. I would like to see more effort put into compressed air hybrids, hydraulic hybrids, and flywheels.These systems do not require expensive batteries, are potentially just as good as an electric hybrid, and are easily cheaper.

coasterpro 10/03/2011 04:01 AM

"Some 80 percent of EV charging will be done at home"

Fantastic. Some 34% of Americans rent their homes and that number is increasing every year. Home ownership is going the way of the Dodo and with it the prospect for charging an EV. So the market for EVs is already a fraction of the total car market. Add to that the lack of versatility of pure EVs (ie. no long distance driving, limited commute distance, questionable cold weather performance, etc.) and the market is pared down even.... More

Huh? 10/03/2011 00:27 AM

Government subsidies for the car. Subsidies for the garage charging station. If a technology requires this many subsidies, it means it is not economically viable. The market may be slow (or not fast enough for you) but it gets there when it is time. It is by definition not time. When demand can support electrics with out what will likely be eternal handouts it will be time.

EVsRoll 10/02/2011 23:38 PM

A couple of notes about range:

1. Most people take local trips in their cars, well under 50 miles. They do not need 300 miles of range except to feel good.

2. Chevy Volt users have hundreds of miles of possible range. It has been noted though that most of them are keeping within the 40 mile battery pack range anyway!

EVsRock!
http://www.evsroll.com

logicalConclusion 10/02/2011 23:29 PM

It will probably take at least 20 years to get the plans, permits and resources to build enough electric generating facilities to handle widespread use of electric cars.

In the meantime, our electric bills will necessarily go up to cover the cost of creating the new infrastructure.

The poor and working class couldn't afford these cars. Federal and state governments don't have the money to subsidize something unnecessary, though noble it may be. The government doesn't have the.... More

dc 10/03/2011 10:25 AM

Are you aware that we are paying subsidies to OIL companies?? There was a lot of discussion about this when congress was arguing the debt celiing. Of course the republicans made sure that these subsidies dodnt end. Does this mean that oil isnt feasable?

Michael 10/02/2011 22:44 PM

It's amazing, guess it's has to do with being around for a while. People have been asking car companies to make more fuel efficient cars for decades, more than say 15 to 20mpg. Now all of a sudden with hybrids and plug-in hybrids we have regular cars being sold that get 30 to 40 mpg. I am sorry, but if there was ever a conspiracy to defraud, it is by the big car companies, not the workers, but should be prosecuted CEO's, that never put America's interest first! I love Hybrids and Plug-In.... More

Terry 10/02/2011 13:31 PM

Just thought I'd mention plug-in hybrids and EV's are also subsidized by not paying Federal Highway and State gasoline taxes. .37 a gallon in Michigan. Can't see that subsidy lasting forever. Other than that as mentioned above I really like plug-in hybrids since electricity is almost 100% domestic (ok not uranium). While 50% of our oil is imported.

Blessed Geek 10/02/2011 11:04 AM

I don't understand. The Chevy Metro manual shift, with careful driving without need of obsessive hypermiling gives me at least 50 mpg. And it was a cheap car. It performs even better than a Prius and it is not hybrid.

New, small size high mpg cars are so expensive. Why aren't there sub-$10K small size 50 mpg highway capable cars being sold anymore in the US?

Why would we need a big huge car when a Chevy Metro suffices. Public conspiracy: WHO KILLED THE CHEVY METRO?

Anonymous 10/03/2011 10:26 AM

Try tuning the radio in this rock and roll cheap buckboard of a car while moving down a moderately bumpy road! I had a Metro, you'll never get me in that beer can again!

TeslaReborn 10/02/2011 10:43 AM

Battery Cars basically hands the industry over to China. Battery as known will not work. MUST Rebuild electric transmission along roads, hybrids use the electricity when available along road. Transmission efficiency improvements cover about half the transportation needs.

I loves my foreign oil 10/02/2011 08:57 AM

I'm not discounting the fact this tech is very expensive right now. I do dismiss many of the minor points quibbled here. Either you can afford it or not. There is no arguing this is the right direction as far as I'm concerned. Yes coal is a dirty fuel but I would rather deal withbthose consequences as I have to believe we can move forward with improvements to coal/electricity production. We have bright people in this country and a shared future at stake. What we have little control over is.... More

Yes1fan 10/02/2011 22:37 PM

...uhhhh...I believe I argued the point, with one NOT so minor. ANY focus away from oil-from-algae is terribly misguided. Reasons include: 1) Electric will NEVER be feasible for other types of transportation. such as air travel, unless we start putting some of NASA's portable nuclear power plants on planes - not good! 2) Oil is the ONLY energy source with sufficient power / weight ratio to drive for any distance in a blizzard, and to haul heavy loads (trucking, most rail), without MAJOR.... More

TeslaReborn 10/02/2011 10:37 AM

NOTE: read note below. Big gain is NOT in electricity production. The electric transmission system is very old, costly, and very inefficient. Put it along roadways as noted, 'bleed' juice for vehicles, which mostly only use energy when going up hills. Solutions are simple but existing companies (cars and oil) control all.

JeramieH 10/02/2011 05:32 AM

I drove my last car to 300K miles. A car that can only survive 100K miles isn't worth squat to me.

dc 10/03/2011 10:32 AM

Was your last car waranteed to go 300k miles? Any part of it? It doesnt matter anyway. We dont have to covert everything to electrics. If we can use electricity for 75% of of our driving, it benefilts everyone. The price of oil will drop dramatically when the demand drops the same way. Both types of vehicles will be needed, and both will cost less to operate than now when we have widespread electrics/hybrids.

Dan 10/02/2011 11:02 AM

To true, this mirrors my post. Get a warranty of 250K on batteries alone and we'll talk, that's my line.
This of course won't currently happen , because the batteries just aren't good enough.

TeslaReborn 10/02/2011 01:12 AM

Our electric transmission system is ancient and inefficient. If rebuilt along roadways, hybrid vehicles could get power from 'roadway' even very large trucks. Gas kicks in if/when road juice not available. Maybe a zero-sum game because current waste in electric transmission so great.

Dan 10/03/2011 08:59 AM

And just who is going to PAY for the electricity the hybrid vehicles will get "from 'roadway'"? The utility will have no viable means to meter the amount of electricity bled from their lines by inductance since, as you say, the lines are already "ancient and inefficient". Make them more efficient? Who will foot the bill for that?

Don't parrot the standard "subsidized by the government" line. Their money comes from one source: taxpayers' pockets. And that source is already abused way too.... More

dion 10/01/2011 23:37 PM

The problem with trying to see how electric vehicles will fare are all tied to the price of petroleum. The petroleum industry can kill off the EV industry by lowering the cost of fuel then raise them later when the EV ind gets the rug pulled from under them. Hybrids at least stay in the limbo world of both worlds. EV vehicles are tethered to the elec socket no matter how you slice and dice it. You have to plan any trips for EV. There was a remark about the government subsidizing this.... More

Yes1fan 10/01/2011 23:21 PM

All expenditures in Electric / Hybrid car production, as well as solar panel, windmill, and other alternative energy, should be re-directed into expanding, on a massive scale, carbon-neutral and sulfur-free lab-proven oil-from-algae. The solution to the world's fuel crisis is to MAKE MORE OIL THAN IS NEEDED. This solution involves the least lifestyle change - e.g. your car will stay warm, and work even in a blizzard. Gas & diesel distribution stays as-is. Oil-from-algae means.... More

kmhunt 10/01/2011 21:20 PM

"The Fisker Karma will cost $96,850 ... but there's a $7,500 federal income tax credit!"

Translation: You pay $89350, and everyone else picks up the rest!

John 10/01/2011 18:01 PM

If electric cars are soooooo wonderful why do they need to be subsidized by the government?

Errogant 2 10/02/2011 11:59 AM

Gasoline burning cars have been subsidized by the government since the early 20's, though not directly. The US government subsidizes oil exploration and transportation.

Matt 10/01/2011 18:39 PM

You could say the same thing about railroad, air travel, electricity, public water and sewer, and gas-powered cars when they were all first available on the market. The government made (and continues to make) huge investments to ease the adoption of these technologies.

The_Mick 10/01/2011 16:55 PM

"As one rule of thumb, a gas car that gets 20 mpg average would cost 20 cents a mile to operate, and a comparable electric just 3 cents." No, no, no! A marginally COMPARABLE gas car gets 40 mpg. That's 10 cents a mile. For 100,000 miles that's ($0.10-$0.03)x 100,000 = $7,000 more in fuel averaged out over 10 years and costs $7 to $17 LESS UP FRONT than the electric car. I'm all for electric cars - their costs will drop just like computers, LCD screens, etc. but right now they're much more.... More

gary 10/01/2011 21:24 PM

seriously you think the average mpg in this country is 40?

20 is way more like it. thats what I get with my magnam v6

bill 10/02/2011 11:28 AM

that's because people keep buying things like magnum v6's.

FormerHPB 10/01/2011 12:55 PM

Nissan Leaf a Luxury car? ahahahahah. Hilarious. It's a tiny econobox. the Volt is at least somewhat luxurious inside, but still not a luxury car. These cars are overpriced and useless for a lot of people like myself who has a 60 mile round trip commute and cold winters which lower the battery power.

Anonymous 10/02/2011 13:40 PM

The Leaf is no compact econobox. It is a well built mid-sized sedan. I currently drive a Toyota Carolla. I parked next to a Leaf the other day that the Leaf was huge next to my econobox and looked much much nicer.

Anonymous 10/01/2011 11:40 AM

As for the source of the electricity, our country needs to invest in nano technology to produce the electricity. Embed the nano technology in keyboards on smart phones, desktops, laptops, etc. That way when articles like this come out, we can power the planet by all these stupid comments.

wasserball 10/01/2011 10:42 AM

a good thing in this world does not need convincing. thank you for trying anyway.

Dennis 10/01/2011 10:36 AM

If electric cars are so great, then why does the government have to bribe people to buy them? If you want to pay twice as much for an electric vehicle that has no government bribes such as HOV access and tax payer funded credits then go knock yourself out. This current battery technology will never be competetive in the free market and will always need governement bribes. Only when/if new technology is developed will electric vehicles be adopted as practical. Until then, you're only stealing.... More

dzerres 10/01/2011 13:37 PM

If gasoline (oil) is so great why does the government have to bribe (tax breaks) for the oil companies?

Anonymous 10/01/2011 17:21 PM

campaign contributions,paybacks,lobbyists etc. Congress's first rule; protect the rich,screw everybody else.

sparky 10/01/2011 09:39 AM

Why don’t the reporters factor in the pollution emission coming from the power plant to charge these vehicles? Also they should give the efficiency rating in miles per Kwatts similar to miles per gallon gasoline.

mensaboy 10/01/2011 09:09 AM

If electric cars are such a great deal, why are my tax dollars being used to support them?

dzerres 10/01/2011 13:38 PM

Mensa? ha, ha, ha. Same can be said for tax breaks for the oil companies. Mensa indeed.

bill 10/01/2011 08:35 AM

With what electricity costs in Maine where I live, gas would need to be in excess of $8/gal to make a plug-in car break even in 5 years. The big picture is...if you live in a city, in a state with nuclear power, an electric car is probably a good idea. For the rest of us the extra monetary cost and environmental cost associated with electric production just makes it not worth the effort.

Mobius007 10/01/2011 20:00 PM

It sounds like you may want to invest in some solar panels.

I've got a grid-tied 4 KW system I installed myself for less than $10,000 (after the 30% tax credit). It powers my whole house.

For another $4000 I could expand it to cover the power needs of a plug-in hybrid as well.

Problem solved.

Maine has sunny days, just like we have here in northern Michigan.

realcreature 10/01/2011 06:44 AM

Electric power uses MORE fossil fuels than gasoline - due to number of energy conversions needed - electric is cheaper due to subsidies, but those will VANISH when demand rises.

realcreature 10/01/2011 06:46 AM

subsidies of electric power production and distribution by federal gov

JD 10/01/2011 06:06 AM

The problem right now is that total cost of ownership is simply higher with electrics, even after subsidies. This may be worth it to some people (it would be to me if I had the money), but most of us these days are choosing the most economical option available.

It's probably best to wait. A few more years down the road, electrics may actually be cheaper to own overall in the long run after economies of scale (and hopefully another major tech breakthrough or two) kick in.

Source.... More

bob 10/01/2011 00:19 AM

Lies about the battery recycling. Its a SHAM

AlaBill 10/03/2011 03:23 AM

What is your reasoning/source for your statement that recycling of batteries is a sham?

Dan 09/30/2011 20:18 PM

I guess I'm going to remain -very- worried about battery life, and thus not buy an electric.
First I drive a car hard in general, count on a rough duty cycle, second my previous new car purchase lasted 242k miles until major mechanical problems(broken con rod.) It's replacement new car is at 72k, it's a little more complex being an AWD car, all it has to do it match the 242k to make me happy.
I just don't believe that given a severe duty cycle I will get full use of the cars.... More