Hidden musical code found written into Plato's texts
Ancient philosopher's texts double as a musical score, researchers find.
Photo: Wiki Commons/CC License Comments
Ancient Greeks used as few words as possible so as not to disturb another's thinking, or insult another's intelligence in the time of Pericles. Scholars have said Xenophon's works sounded much like Kipling's flow, but in Greek his words had a sound of music to them. Perhaps Plato's was much the same. Xenophon was also a scholar of Socrates and wrote about him, but Xenophon wasn't gay, if that paints a different point of view or not. I have yet to read Xenophon's studies of Socrates and of.... More
This is a non-story. If the author had any evidence of cryptic musical notation he has a duty to provide an example. Anyone can say anything, but the truth of a proposition is in the evidence.
Just because Plato followed Pythagoras does not necessarily imply that he wrote a score into "The Republic," which I have read many times.
I want to hear the music!
you can get recordings from public libraries.
you can get recordings from public libraries.
you can get recordings from public libraries.
u realize they can do this with anything? im pretty sure they did it with the slap chop too
u realize they can do this with anything? im pretty sure they did it with the slap chop too
Anyone who knows anything about the history of sound would know that there were only 7 tones in the greek scale. The 12 tone equal-tempered scale wasn't invented until the 19th century.
Don't be pretentious if you're not right.
There's no "Greek scale." A 12-tone scale (not equal-tempered) was in use by the Greeks since at least the time of Aristoxenes, the first to document the use of musical modes in detail. However, 7 tones of the scale would be used in any particular piece, and the 7 tones chosen comprise the mode of the piece, as any music major would know.
Really, it doesn't matter if he meant for there be a musical pattern or not, I still think it's a wonderful coincidence. I'd really like to hear what they've found, honestly, I think this is neat.
Really, it doesn't matter if he meant for there be a musical pattern or not, I still think it's a wonderful coincidence. I'd really like to hear what they've found, honestly, I think this is neat.
Really, it doesn't matter if he meant for there be a musical pattern or not, I still think it's a wonderful coincidence. I'd really like to hear what they've found, honestly, I think this is neat.
their were twelve notes in the greek scale (yes, we use them), but only eight are used in any given scale... You can rearrange them into majors, minors, lydians etc, but using all twelve is a dischord. In addition, what key or what tone did he say to start with? Hard to get a pitch off a piece of paper and do we have the original? I tried to follow the link to the original article and got a page of: "%PDF-1.3 %Äåòåë§ó ÐÄÆ 4 0 obj << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> stream.... More
again, obviously I can't pun and type at the same time. Last line of the original comment should be "sounds geek to me"!
I used to be able to think about music and type at the same time. The first word in the comment should be "There"... Made the comment a little flat, when it needed to be sharp. When you need to b sharp, you just have to see.
If socrates did see this, he would just laugh this off and do something productive.
...but you can find the actual paper right here (4 clicks from this page):
http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/staff/jay.kennedy/Kennedy_Apeiron_...
I only skimmed through it, but the author doesn't appear to be saying that Plato wrote a symphony, but that there is a carefully
Wow, this looks like the worst excuse for music I've ever seen. Way to go, you've succeeded in making the entire human race a little less cultured because of this trash. Nice work.
SPAM!
(I)t is absolutely comical and embarrassing to iimagine that the Beethoven of deductive thought would fritter his Valuable time on such an enterprise. Better yet, i can guarantee that if some piece was found, it was not Intended to be acknowledged as such. In this light, I cannot accept this article.
Who would bother to put some kind of musical code into what they have written anyways?
What first got me curious was your odd name, Amajor Enolaemevael. I think that it makes more sense when broken into "A major," a musical reference (or possibly a key signature). Enolaemevael is less interesting. It is just "Leave me alone" spelled backwards. As for the rest of your comment, the unusual choice of words and the fact that certain words were capitalized suggested that you had an ulterior intent. From what I can tell the "I" in (I)t is indicative of a I major chord (probably in A.... More
(I)t is absolutely comical and embarrassing to iimagine that the Beethoven of deductive thought would fritter his Valuable time on such an enterprise. Better yet, i can guarantee that if some piece was found, it was not Intended to be acknowledged as such. In this light, I cannot accept this article.
Who would bother to put some kind of musical code into what they have written anyways?
I was a Philosophy Major in college and Plato was among my favorite reads, even more than his teacher Socrates, and even more than his teacher, Aristotle. Plato was a realist, at the same time, connected with a sense of oneness and intuitive perception of the universe around him (e.g. The Forms). Nice share, thanks!
Keith Johnson, Senior Technical Writer
http://greatdocuments.net
you really were a philosophy major? I find that hard to believe, Aristotle was not Socrates' teacher, he was somewhat a student of Plato. Plato was a student of Socrates. And more again all we know from Socrates, Plato wrote and there is a big problem in distinguishing these two - they are in some fields merged, so to say. Even more surprising is that you manage to say that Plato talked about forms, that's Aristotle yet again. Plato talked about ideas and the world of ideas
I think the big giveaway was when the article opened with a reference to Dan Brown. Not to mention that complex understanding of anatomy in Michelangelo's work came to them as a surprise.
I am not convinced. Wiki 'foolishness theory'.
If you play it backwards, you get John Lennon intoning "Love is Good Hash."
when they play the score.. it sounds like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
i heard p diddy's workin on tha remixxx
all you said is that theres 12 books in the republic and ancient greeks refenced music and war, nice finding, "Discovering" code in complex writen work is no new trick good job you know how to sound like you know what your talking about
You're criticizing people far more educated than you on their extensive research into one of the most elegant philosophical books ever written, and you're doing it with improper grammar.
Point proven.
man id really love to take a crack at that score! this sounds pretty dope they shud have posted the score or at least something saying "we havent fully deciphered it..."
I find that this is probably more of a result from people seeing patterns where they don't actually exist. It may be true that Plato hid a musical cipher in is text, but for the money I would wager that it is nothing more than a person making connections that don't actually exist.
No, of course not, this is the internet. And while we are at it, Nazis, Mudkips, Naked Women, Nerd Jokes.
Oh, God. What if it's The Hokey-Pokey?!!
It is possible that Plato did use some sort of "hidden anatomy" in the Republic, though I doubt he had intentions of integrating some sort of code. Ancient Greek is thought to have been a quite "sing-songy" language through use of stress symbols, but to hide some sort of musical notation into the piece seems odd for a philosophical look at the possibility of a perfect governmental system. I have read it in the original text and didn't find the mentioned connections, but maybe another read.... More
I dont really see this work as being strictly about the perfect governmental system, more as a text about how society works overall, inside and out, as above, so below. It is not an attempt to perfect anything, it is an attempt to categorise the existing portions of life as plato saw it and create and foster a veiw of a path to the realisation of godhead. This is why the Christians liked him, and why he is so attached to alchemy and the occult. I'd say that, although I personally didnt find.... More
I feel like we should be able to hear it. Either that or the actual key to the code should accompany this.
I feel like we should be able to hear it. Either that or the actual key to the code should accompany this.
Seems from your comments some of you have a very demeaning and uneducated criticism of these findings, emphasizing you aren't impressed by "coding" you do not understand. Its easy to belittle things out of ignorance isnt it. Likely though, the score is far to impressive for your comprehension. Go obtain a PHD in Music Theory, complement that with studies in Philosophy, Greek History, and by the way, learn to speak ancient Greek... then you are qualified to have an Opinion.
I think people should also get a coaching and physiology degree before they comment on sports, and a couple degrees in public policy before they vote. That way we won't criticize, or vote for that matter, without understanding.
It's not as though this article even presented us with the code that we are supposedly demeaning. That is what I gathered these 'uneducated' posts were asking for.
I'm glad we have an Attic Greek speaking PhD holder in Music Theory and Philosophy in the forum! Since your qualified opinion on this code is beyond reproach, and since you clearly understand all its complexities, why don't you please explain it to us? I'm sure we won't be able to follow, but surely a mind as agile as yours can find some rudimentary analogies and metaphors to enlighten us...
I agree there are a lot of knee-jerk negative responses to this fascinating article but NO ONE needs to QUALIFY to have an opinion.
If they are going to compare this researcher's findings to those of Michaelangelo's "hidden anatomy" (which is very subjective), then I have reason to doubt this claim of "hidden musical scores." It sounds like pseudo-sciencee; that they are selecting passages to fit a pre-conceived point/to get published/to get media attention/to get grant funds.
